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All In Podcast Episode 119 Notes March 10 2023

March 10 2023



  • Sacks got a bulldog
  • SVB
    • This is like 2008 and Covid

    • We are in the middle of it right now

    • Really acute effects that many companies and founders are dealing with right now - 1000s of companies

    • Worse than 2008 or Covid for Silicon Valley companies

    • Like Lehmann for Silicon Valley

    • Garry Tan comment - this is an extinction level event

    • This is not a Big Tech event - small companies - 10 to 100 employees, 1000s of companies - Little Tech is being hit

    • Regional banking crisis

    • SVB was compliant according to regulators

    • Now everyone is talking about why would you keep money in JP Morgan or top 4 bank

    • So regional banks might suffer a bank run

    • SVB supports 50% of venture backed startup

    • Venture Funds also have money stuck in SVB

    • Billions of dollars frozen

    • Wed letter SVB CEO issued a letter to shareholders

    • Prior to the run - it was a financial solvent business

    • End of 2022


    • Deposits grew a lot over last 2 years

    • But now recently deposits dropped

    • Bond portfolio also declined in value

    • Dec 2022 Seeking Alpha asked if SVB was about to blow up



    • They made $560M profits in 2021 on venture debt - dropped to $140M in 2022

  • Who is to blame?
    • Risk folks at SVB made a huge miscalculation - funds could be called on stuff they had invested for 10 years
    • 561 bank failures 2001-2022
    • SVB had bad risk management strategy - duration mismatch - invested in long term securities while serving market that is so volatile
    • Need to match timing of cash flows - SVB bought 10 year risk in order to pay back money that could be called on a daily or weekly basis
    • Hard to adjust fast enough coz they had mark to market assets that got clobbered with rising interest rates
    • Weird accounting thing that losses on 10 year bonds/MBS are only accounted for on sale not during mark to market - which is weird
    • Venture debt market is clobbered because lender assumes VCs will keep investing and that companies will keep getting up rounds
      • This was true in ZIRP environment
    • Venture debt should be raised from LPs - not from customer deposits
    • SVB is loaning it to people who are depositing it
    • Can’t be using customer deposits for PE play, risky loans, warrant coverage, etc
    • Venture debt is much like Venture Capital - most of this gain is on paper, most of the gain hasn’t been realized
    • SVB said it themselves - the burn rate stayed the same
    • Sacks said in every board meeting recently to founders to cut burn (~29 min mark)
      • If you have never lived in a bear market, you don’t know how bad it can get
    • Deposit banks should be required to keep all deposits in liquid assets
    • 2 day ago Powell was asked about systemic risk in the banking system in the rising interest rate environment - and he said “no”
    • Yellen is saying they are monitoring the situation
      • 3 days ago she was in Ukraine
    • SVB made decision to sell their assets at loss because their deposits went down because VCs and startups failed to cut burn - they were spending a lot
    • You might have been working on something like climate change, etc - did the right thing, big warchest, good burn rate - all compromised because of other people’s mistakes
    • Companies had money in money market funds - safest stuff - by blackrock, morgan stanley - tens of millions - all compromised - CA regulator stepped in and froze everything
      • Only get $250K - else you get a certificate for use in bankruptcy - coz ur assets are owned by SVB in blackrock/morgan stanley investments
    • Could take months to get even 70c on the dollar - that is big hit
      • But who is the buyer - sharpest sharps on wall street who will get big discount - so better for Fed to warehouse that risk
    • This will torch years of US innovation - and regulators cannot let this happen
  • Second order effects
    • Payment processors (kinda like Rippling?) are hit so they can’t pay their customers
    • Say Stripe can’t pay some ecommerce vendor in Arizona - so contagion effect is bad
    • SVB was an on ramp for US people to get money into China
      • Chinese startups would raise money from US investors using banks like SVB
      • So hurting Chinese startups too - this complicates Great Power Conflict
    • TARP returned a $15B profit to american people
    • People saying bank run is a panic - its not irrational actually, its actually rational
    • If government doesn’t step in this weekend it could spark on a run on the regional banking system
    • Customer deposits are not a place where people expect to lose money
    • Using customer deposits and use in risky non liquid investments is terrible
    • Crazy that you can set up a bank account to write checks and lose all the money because the bank lost the money in mortgage backed securities, etc
    • The customers’ mistake is they used a top 20 bank that was under regulatory compliance? This is so unfair
  • Effect on VCs
    • Chilling effect
    • VC funds cannot pay their employees, etc
    • A lot of shutdowns are going to get accelerated
    • VCs will pick winners
    • Dark times
    • $42B of withdrawals on March 9 2023 after announcing on March 8 2023 that they lost money by selling some MBS type investments - and had negative $958M cash
    • Silicon Valley herd mentality drove everyone to withdraw money maybe - the network is very connected
    • Rational upside-downside action
    • Game theory - you don’t want to wait to be the last one to leave - downside of taking money out is zero - downside of leaving it in is bad
    • Every single VC basically custodies funds at SVB
    • iShares Regional Bank ETF has crashed

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